I wrote this as a comment in someone's blog, and thought it was worth a blog:
A child cannot consent to an ideology being shoved on them at a young age for the same reason they cannot consent to sex. Their brain is under-developed and they lack the maturity and reasoning skills to understand either.
However while it's considered downright evil to molest a child's body, it's been a time honored tradition for thousands of years to molest their brain long before they can ever consent or understand what is being done to them.
If you don't get how this is egregious, imagine for a moment (in the original blog comment I was speaking to a christian) that someone had gotten to you when you were young and indoctrinated you into islam. You would be convinced that there is no god but allah and mohammad is his prophet right now and you would almost certainly
never stop believing that. Because you didn't make up your mind, your mind was made up for you. You were molested in a horrible way before you had any defense against such ideas. Just as if someone had opened up the back of your brain and programmed it like a computer, all of your religious freedom of thought was stripped away.
Why? Because that's how their parents did them, and their parents' parents and so on for a thousand years.
It's disgusting. Especially when you consider that at least most religions must be lies, and most interpretations of the "true" religion would be false. Indoctrination is the greatest force propping up falsehood (and blasphemy) in this world.
Comments (158)
That's intense. And so true. Great way of putting it.
Also, another thing is that once these people grow older, they're afraid to leave their religion even if they don't believe in it anymore. Take me, for example - my grandfather is a hardcore Christian, and if he ever found out I'm atheist, he'd probably refuse to ever talk to me again.
@SerenaDante - I know the feeling. I was disowned by my father for not being catholic. The irony is he's a total shithead and I wish he'd told me that was the rule YEARS earlier.
This is so totally true. It is molestation of the mind. So much for freedom of choice right? I've been disowned by my family for disavowing the LDS faith. It's ridiculous, not to mention, the social stigma that comes with being a non-believer (at least in the US) is so unfair.
@abilene_piper_lg - Well kudos for going against the grain (especially LSD, er, I mean LDS).
It's a bummer to be ostracized by religious folk sometimes, but to me it's worth it. To quote a song I was thinking about the other day "everything isn't meant to be okay".
@agnophilo - It's worth it to me too. Given popularity or rationality, I'll pick the latter any day of the week.
I don't think it's evil to raise a child with faith, it all depends on how you do it. You can be forceful (thus setting the stage for rebellion in their teen years) or you can teach them what you know but understand that eventually, kids have to make their own choices. Parents need to realize that they are doing their religion a huge disservice by forcing it. Furthermore, it's not exactly Christian to disown someone, expecially your own flesh and blood, for not believing.
@abilene_piper_lg - Even though it can be depressing, reality and making sound decisions that positively, not randomly, effect others is always worthwhile.
You're completely right. I was raised Christian, but out of the churches, and I think that did me A LOT of good simply because I was taught to be a good person and treat others well.
However, every time I tried to go to church, it seemed like all of this was lost. I saw a lot Us vs. You discrepancies that made me feel like I'd never be good enough. It also made me feel like there was some sort of crime in having friends of different beliefs, or even disagreeing with the churches on the MANY things that I disagree with.
So, I just gave up. I'm still figuring out what I believe, but it doesn't include mass institutions set forth to brainwash people.
@sarahzthoughts - Until a certain age children will believe anything you tell them, and when they are older they will be sure it's right, but not know why.
Children get indoctrinated into racism the same way. Just being exposed to it as a child gives them a bias that, unless they are particularly strong willed, will last them their entire lives.
We should teach our children how to think, not what to think. Teach them about every religion of the world, do not for one second tell them jesus died for them and they'll go to hell if they don't believe in him.
Do you really want to teach a child these "facts" of christianity? Why not tell them daddy drinks because they cry while you're at it.
@sarahzthoughts - "Furthermore, it's not exactly Christian to disown someone, expecially your own flesh and blood, for not believing."
Actually it is. Most christians just don't read the bible, and their concept of what is christian or not comes from the pop-culture blob of random ideas that is christianity, not the bible.
The bible tells you to shun non-believers at best, kill them at worst.
@xXxjelloxXx - Kudos for finding your own way. I'll argue my position with you on my blog, but I'll never judge you for what you believe : D Either way, welcome to the dark side : P
@agnophilo - Actually, Jesus calls us to love each other. He even spent time with the worst sinners of his day, and he loved them rather than judged them. All Christians are expected to do the same.
@agnophilo - I don't see anything wrong with telling a child that Jesus loves them. I think it's more important to share that rather than give them an ultimatum: believe or burn. I strongly discourage that form of evangelism.
@sarahzthoughts - The bible, old testament and new, tells you to shun un-believers, "shake the dust off your feet", "touch not the unclean thing and I will accept you" (referring to non-christians). It compares us to demons, says we are foolish, evil, filthy, guilty of many bad things and are incapable of ever doing any good, and you are forbidden from inviting us into your home or bidding us "godspeed" lest you partake in our "evil deeds".
Jesus was not all peace love and happiness. He's supposed to reign fire on unbelievers on judgement day and "in flaming fire take vengeance" on us, simply for not worshipping him.
@sarahzthoughts - Yeah but that's what your religion says.
And no, how is telling them a 2,000 year old dead jew they've never met loves them any different than telling them mohammad is the prophet of allah?
If you have to get to a kid before their brain is done growing to convert them, your religion is not worth believing. And that goes for any belief.
Most atheists de-convert in adulthood, almost all theists are converted in childhood.
Which is based on indoctrination and which is based on reason would you say?
Awesome post. I completely agree. And reading some of these comments makes me laugh - how anyone can not see the truth in your words is really impossible for me to understand.
@agnophilo - Thanks, haha. Basically, I just try to be an optimist. I'd like to believe that there is something "else" out there, but if there isn't, it doesn't really matter. I won't let "it" dictate my life. I'm just going to be myself, regardless.
I know it's hard to let go what one has been programmed to believe, but I'm doing my best to keep an open mind.
@LifeIsAnSTD - My father grew up in a twisted household. He was religious about hand-drying dishes. You couldn't wash them and let them drip dry in a strainer, you had to hand-dry them. One day my mom went to his parents' house and saw them washing dishes, and they would put them in the dish strainer with chunks of food dripping down them.
This no doubt disturbed him as a child, and he got the food off by drying it and wiping it off. But as an adult, rather than aknowledge his parents were demented, he just developed a hangup about hand-drying. It wasn't that they were insane and gross, it was that hand-drying was all-important.
Some people just don't have it in them to go against society, or their peers, or their parents in what they believe. It's always easier, in the short run, to rationalize, or compartmentalize, or ignore problems.
@xXxjelloxXx - You sound like you're doing just fine. : D And I agree. I think religions help people cope with reality by pretending that reality is ideal - all is just, we will live forever in paradise, death doesn't even exist etc. It's a fantasy. Philosophy helps people cope with reality by finding different ways to look at things that are still rational and demonstrably true. A pessimist says a glass is half empty, the philosopher says it is half full, the scientist tries to come up with a way to fill it up the rest of the way, and the priest says don't worry that the glass is half empty, we'll have a thousand full glasses once we're dead.
Also when you get older, they try to stop you from going out in the world. High school, college, try to make all your choices for you. Make sure you don't trust anyone and always suspect satan is behind any questions anyone asks you. They try to keep you from learning so you never question the faith.
@FalconBridge - I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but I've talked to way too many lunatics to be sure. Poe's law strikes again...
@agnophilo - I wonder... what would all of them say if I just pushed my glass off the table and asked why the hell it really mattered? We're given this life. The real question is how we're going to spend it--not waste it on theories that do us NO good while we're above ground.
@agnophilo - First thing, Jesus isn't dead. You do remember the part about the resurrection, right? Secondly, "simply not worshiping him" isn't why people get sent to hell. The issue is about unrepented sin, and all humans are guilty of it. I'm sure you've heard all this before so I'll spare you a sermon but it's not that Jesus is greedy and wants all the attention, he just wants us to accept the free gift of salvation he gave us by dying on the cross.
And for the record, no one tried to convert me "before my brain was done growing." I didn't grow up Christian, I became one in college. So while many atheists become that way later in life, it's not true for everyone. I do think that everyone should do their own research before any conversion. Just because you tell a child about it doesn't guarantee that they won't choose to explore it for themselves. Blind faith is not a good thing. When they are old and mature enough, I wouldn't mind if my kids researched religion. I'd want them to stay with the faith they were raised in, but if they did, I would want it to be their choice, and not mine.
I was kind of hoping someone would actually attempt to make a half-hearted counterpoint here... no luck yet I guess.
I admit to feeling a mean little flicker of glee when theists tie the noose of an unsupportable argument for you.
@sarahzthoughts - (hypothetically) I have a fundamental disagreement with Jesus on one point - I, personally, did not commit the original sins he was forgiving. The things he supposedly died for happened centuries before my birth, well out of my control.
The idea that I am guilty simply by existing is disgusting. Even if I
turn out to be wrong, I'd rather go down on the right side of my moral
conscience than submit to a force that is itself morally insubstantial.
In regards to my own personal "sins" I can only ask this: what sense does it make to create a being that is flawed and punish it for its mistakes? It's equivalent to a person buying a puppy, failing to house train it and then abusing it for making a mess on the carpet.
If this absent god really expected anything of me, he would not have created me with an inherent disbelief in his existence... that, or he's incredibly stupid.
@sarahzthoughts - Very good answer.